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	<title>Comments on: No Child Left Unrecruited</title>
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	<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/no-child-left-unrecruited</link>
	<description>it&#039;s the little things...</description>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/no-child-left-unrecruited/comment-page-1#comment-20247</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 05:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=889#comment-20247</guid>
		<description>Matt, I would first like to echo Christina in thanking you for your service.  

Moving on, I understand your view that just because the military can call you, doesnt mean you have to join.  Servicemen (adults) are not naive.  However, 17 year old children with limited oppurtunites do tend to be naive, and when a recruiter flashes signing bonuses, aid for college, and a promising future in front of disadvantaged kids, they do tend to buy the bullshit.  And they do more than occasionally cold call houses.  They practically stalk potential enlistees by watching their myspace accounts, and keep actual  tabs on their options for the future.  They call this their &quot;feeding list&quot;.  And yes, most recruiters disregard calling the kids who already have college paid for.  I know this because I have spoken with many many recruiters about their tactics.

The truth is, the things they promise are not necessarily acheivable.  Only 43% of veterans receive money for college, and they have to first put up close to 1300 bucks in order to qualify. 

You obviously are more priveleged than most enlistees, with your boarding school diploma and top 25 university under your belt.  However, you were not recruited, you enlisted on your own.  The large majority of recruits do it for the money.

Please dont take my different point of view as disrespect to the uniform.  I do not forget that we were attacked.  War is necessary.  But at the same time, war is ugly.  And those who take time out of their lives to fights these wars....my hat is off to you.  But to the recruiters who prey on kids, and tell them they will never see combat, and that they can opt out of service if they dont like it!!   Yes thats true.....is horrible, and incredibly unpatriotic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, I would first like to echo Christina in thanking you for your service.  </p>
<p>Moving on, I understand your view that just because the military can call you, doesnt mean you have to join.  Servicemen (adults) are not naive.  However, 17 year old children with limited oppurtunites do tend to be naive, and when a recruiter flashes signing bonuses, aid for college, and a promising future in front of disadvantaged kids, they do tend to buy the bullshit.  And they do more than occasionally cold call houses.  They practically stalk potential enlistees by watching their myspace accounts, and keep actual  tabs on their options for the future.  They call this their &#8220;feeding list&#8221;.  And yes, most recruiters disregard calling the kids who already have college paid for.  I know this because I have spoken with many many recruiters about their tactics.</p>
<p>The truth is, the things they promise are not necessarily acheivable.  Only 43% of veterans receive money for college, and they have to first put up close to 1300 bucks in order to qualify. </p>
<p>You obviously are more priveleged than most enlistees, with your boarding school diploma and top 25 university under your belt.  However, you were not recruited, you enlisted on your own.  The large majority of recruits do it for the money.</p>
<p>Please dont take my different point of view as disrespect to the uniform.  I do not forget that we were attacked.  War is necessary.  But at the same time, war is ugly.  And those who take time out of their lives to fights these wars&#8230;.my hat is off to you.  But to the recruiters who prey on kids, and tell them they will never see combat, and that they can opt out of service if they dont like it!!   Yes thats true&#8230;..is horrible, and incredibly unpatriotic.</p>
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		<title>By: Cristina Pippa</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/no-child-left-unrecruited/comment-page-1#comment-20228</link>
		<dc:creator>Cristina Pippa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 02:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=889#comment-20228</guid>
		<description>Matt, thank you so much for sharing your perspective.  The last thing I wanted to do was to patronize anyone who makes the very serious decision to defend our country.  I guess I really don&#039;t think that schools should give out their students&#039; personal information to anyone-- banks, cell phone companies, creditors, or even the government.  

But more importantly, I do want to re-iterate that your service is deeply appreciated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, thank you so much for sharing your perspective.  The last thing I wanted to do was to patronize anyone who makes the very serious decision to defend our country.  I guess I really don&#8217;t think that schools should give out their students&#8217; personal information to anyone&#8211; banks, cell phone companies, creditors, or even the government.  </p>
<p>But more importantly, I do want to re-iterate that your service is deeply appreciated.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/no-child-left-unrecruited/comment-page-1#comment-20087</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 04:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=889#comment-20087</guid>
		<description>I would like to get 

I agree with Molly&#039;s brother--the three doors down video is incredibly lame bullshit. 

But as far as everything else, lets grow up a little bit here. Does the government have a database to track people in public high schools, so they can send them annoying recruiting cards and occasionally cold-call a house.

Yes. But I&#039;ve received far more annoying treatment from banks and creditors who were tracking someone else.

I guess I was lucky enough that I went to an well-endowed private boarding school, and then off to two years at a top-25 US university, before I went ahead and enlisted in the Army Infantry and shipped off to a tour in Afghanistan (which after we got our last minute extension, amounted to a total of 16 months spent in combat operations). 

All that education meant I was smart enough not to be tricked. 

Hell, I wanted to be there. 

But please don&#039;t be so patronizing, and give a little credit to the intellectual rigor of the men (yes, I meant men) in combat units, the ones who bear the brunt of the physical and psychological burden in war. The vast majority of them wanted to be there, whether for the action, the love of country, the experience, the escape, or just the hell of it.  

We went into it with wide eyes open. And some people I served with got incredibly fucked up because of it. But it was our choice, not our naivite, that got us there. To imply otherwise is insulting. 

Read Sebastian Junger&#039;s account of the Korengal Valley, one of the most dangerous spots in Afghanistan, to understand why and for what we fight. 

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/01/afghanistan200801

It sure as hell wasn&#039;t because of a card or a call from a man in a ugly green polyester army suit. 

And yes, right now, I am writing this because I can&#039;t get to sleep; I haven&#039;t had regular sleep since I got back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to get </p>
<p>I agree with Molly&#8217;s brother&#8211;the three doors down video is incredibly lame bullshit. </p>
<p>But as far as everything else, lets grow up a little bit here. Does the government have a database to track people in public high schools, so they can send them annoying recruiting cards and occasionally cold-call a house.</p>
<p>Yes. But I&#8217;ve received far more annoying treatment from banks and creditors who were tracking someone else.</p>
<p>I guess I was lucky enough that I went to an well-endowed private boarding school, and then off to two years at a top-25 US university, before I went ahead and enlisted in the Army Infantry and shipped off to a tour in Afghanistan (which after we got our last minute extension, amounted to a total of 16 months spent in combat operations). </p>
<p>All that education meant I was smart enough not to be tricked. </p>
<p>Hell, I wanted to be there. </p>
<p>But please don&#8217;t be so patronizing, and give a little credit to the intellectual rigor of the men (yes, I meant men) in combat units, the ones who bear the brunt of the physical and psychological burden in war. The vast majority of them wanted to be there, whether for the action, the love of country, the experience, the escape, or just the hell of it.  </p>
<p>We went into it with wide eyes open. And some people I served with got incredibly fucked up because of it. But it was our choice, not our naivite, that got us there. To imply otherwise is insulting. </p>
<p>Read Sebastian Junger&#8217;s account of the Korengal Valley, one of the most dangerous spots in Afghanistan, to understand why and for what we fight. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/01/afghanistan200801" rel="nofollow">http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/01/afghanistan200801</a></p>
<p>It sure as hell wasn&#8217;t because of a card or a call from a man in a ugly green polyester army suit. </p>
<p>And yes, right now, I am writing this because I can&#8217;t get to sleep; I haven&#8217;t had regular sleep since I got back.</p>
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		<title>By: Cristina Pippa</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/no-child-left-unrecruited/comment-page-1#comment-20030</link>
		<dc:creator>Cristina Pippa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=889#comment-20030</guid>
		<description>I hadn&#039;t seen that NYT article before, Joie.  It&#039;s incredibly sad and disturbing and ties in directly with Kate&#039;s comment.  

In the short doc I linked you to at www.billleonardo.blip.tv , one of the recruiters talks about targeting the kids with wide eyes.  I don&#039;t know who could be ready for the things soldiers see and do, but I&#039;m willing to bet that the kids who are dreamy about it will have the hardest time processing the reality of it.  

I imagine that the kids who aspire to be like the men and women in those action movie-inspired music videos will also face a surprising reality.  Thank you so much, Molly, for sharing your brother&#039;s reaction.

Hardly anyone (and especially the military) can sell reality, right?  It&#039;s just shocking that they would be given access to students&#039; personal information to sell this particular dream.  Oh, and someone had already come up with this headline.  That&#039;s why I&#039;m surprised so few people (including myself) know about the connection between No Child Left Behind and recruitment.  Do you think it&#039;s common knowledge?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hadn&#8217;t seen that NYT article before, Joie.  It&#8217;s incredibly sad and disturbing and ties in directly with Kate&#8217;s comment.  </p>
<p>In the short doc I linked you to at <a href="http://www.billleonardo.blip.tv" rel="nofollow">http://www.billleonardo.blip.tv</a> , one of the recruiters talks about targeting the kids with wide eyes.  I don&#8217;t know who could be ready for the things soldiers see and do, but I&#8217;m willing to bet that the kids who are dreamy about it will have the hardest time processing the reality of it.  </p>
<p>I imagine that the kids who aspire to be like the men and women in those action movie-inspired music videos will also face a surprising reality.  Thank you so much, Molly, for sharing your brother&#8217;s reaction.</p>
<p>Hardly anyone (and especially the military) can sell reality, right?  It&#8217;s just shocking that they would be given access to students&#8217; personal information to sell this particular dream.  Oh, and someone had already come up with this headline.  That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m surprised so few people (including myself) know about the connection between No Child Left Behind and recruitment.  Do you think it&#8217;s common knowledge?</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Torgovnick</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/no-child-left-unrecruited/comment-page-1#comment-20016</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Torgovnick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=889#comment-20016</guid>
		<description>First of all, props on that headline, Cristina. It&#039;s shocking that the military has access to the contact info for public school kids. My biggest issue with the military is how little psychological  and life support people who go to Iraq and Afghanistan, and Vietnam before them, get when they come back. I mean, I&#039;ve seen at least two homeless people today with signs saying that they&#039;re vets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, props on that headline, Cristina. It&#8217;s shocking that the military has access to the contact info for public school kids. My biggest issue with the military is how little psychological  and life support people who go to Iraq and Afghanistan, and Vietnam before them, get when they come back. I mean, I&#8217;ve seen at least two homeless people today with signs saying that they&#8217;re vets.</p>
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		<title>By: Molly</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/no-child-left-unrecruited/comment-page-1#comment-19731</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 03:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=889#comment-19731</guid>
		<description>Cristina, 

Thanks for getting the dialogue going on this issue. I went to a movie with my brother over the holiday. Admittedly it was the first one I&#039;d seen in ages and I hadn&#039;t yet been exposed to the fact that preview-time now features commercial time. On came that Three Door Down preview and I thought it was a joke. My brother whispered to me, &quot;Such crap, such bullshit.&quot; That from a paratrooper who served in Iraq for 11 months and came home injured. He wasn&#039;t impressed or moved or inspired-- he was annoyed.

** According to him, the stuff they show recruits doing in that video is misleading, naturally. People in the National Guard aren&#039;t doing what the Marines and Rangers are doing, but those visuals are the ones that get the heart pumping, the pride swelling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cristina, </p>
<p>Thanks for getting the dialogue going on this issue. I went to a movie with my brother over the holiday. Admittedly it was the first one I&#8217;d seen in ages and I hadn&#8217;t yet been exposed to the fact that preview-time now features commercial time. On came that Three Door Down preview and I thought it was a joke. My brother whispered to me, &#8220;Such crap, such bullshit.&#8221; That from a paratrooper who served in Iraq for 11 months and came home injured. He wasn&#8217;t impressed or moved or inspired&#8211; he was annoyed.</p>
<p>** According to him, the stuff they show recruits doing in that video is misleading, naturally. People in the National Guard aren&#8217;t doing what the Marines and Rangers are doing, but those visuals are the ones that get the heart pumping, the pride swelling.</p>
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		<title>By: Joie Jager-Hyman</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/no-child-left-unrecruited/comment-page-1#comment-19701</link>
		<dc:creator>Joie Jager-Hyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=889#comment-19701</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much for this post, Cristina!  I saw that Three Doors Down recruitment video at the movies recently and was totally horrified.  It&#039;s one thing if the army still provided decent long-term benefits, like generous college grants, first-rate medical care and government-backed mortgages, but kidz who VOLUNTEER to risk their lives in the Army and National Guard are sadly no longer treated as heroes.

One a related note, the NY Times had a fascinating and shocking story about vets with PTSD who go on to commit crimes in the US:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/us/13vets.html?hp</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for this post, Cristina!  I saw that Three Doors Down recruitment video at the movies recently and was totally horrified.  It&#8217;s one thing if the army still provided decent long-term benefits, like generous college grants, first-rate medical care and government-backed mortgages, but kidz who VOLUNTEER to risk their lives in the Army and National Guard are sadly no longer treated as heroes.</p>
<p>One a related note, the NY Times had a fascinating and shocking story about vets with PTSD who go on to commit crimes in the US:<br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/us/13vets.html?hp" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/us/13vets.html?hp</a></p>
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