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	<title>Comments on: Calling the Kettle Racist</title>
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	<description>it&#039;s the little things...</description>
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		<title>By: Bob Miami</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/calling-the-kettle-racist/comment-page-1#comment-46414</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Miami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 02:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=2369#comment-46414</guid>
		<description>Very clear and inslightful in a difficult area.  There are many reasons why it is better or worse in one country or another but the important area is obviously is it getting better or how can it improve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very clear and inslightful in a difficult area.  There are many reasons why it is better or worse in one country or another but the important area is obviously is it getting better or how can it improve.</p>
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		<title>By: marta</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/calling-the-kettle-racist/comment-page-1#comment-45758</link>
		<dc:creator>marta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=2369#comment-45758</guid>
		<description>nice! I really enjoyed this! As a Spaniard who grew up abroad since an early age, and lived in the US many years, I have to say the differences are huge btw the US and Europe, and yes, ESPECIALLY Southern Europe. I do believe both societies suffer racist discrimination, but in very different ways, I am always appalled when visiting Dc , and riding the bus from NYC into DC, crossing those poor, very poor neighbourhoods, with an overwhelming majority of black people. I think that&#039;s a very hidden form a¡of racism as well. I am equally, if not more appalled when I see the blatant and most of all very ognorant racism we have in Spain and a lot of Europe. The other day I was in the subway, and there were these two guys riding down the stairs. One of them decided to sit down on the step, half jokingly, and out of nowhere bolted two cops who demanded ina very very rude way, to see their documentation. Yes, they looked South American. And I was enraged to think that if the two young guys had been white, that would not have happened. Ever. For sitiing on a tep?? PLEASE! And many many otherthings I see everyday.

I believe Europe, and especially Spain is ignorant. A past of many wars, poverty and nationalism has left many countries on this side of the Atlantic feeling insecure and untrusty of foreigners, or &quot;different&quot; people. A shame, I believe. The more, and the bigger the differences amongst us, the better: the more I learn from you and the more we get to share. Racism comes from insecurity and this whole economic crisis will only exarcebate those nationalistic movements and xenophobic attitiudes.

When I lived in India, I realizd that whites are the weak race, destines to dissappear in a fewhundred years, Mulatos, mixed, half halves... that&#039;s the future of humanity. And to those that don&#039;t believe it, I say... well, maybe you need to travel more!

great post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nice! I really enjoyed this! As a Spaniard who grew up abroad since an early age, and lived in the US many years, I have to say the differences are huge btw the US and Europe, and yes, ESPECIALLY Southern Europe. I do believe both societies suffer racist discrimination, but in very different ways, I am always appalled when visiting Dc , and riding the bus from NYC into DC, crossing those poor, very poor neighbourhoods, with an overwhelming majority of black people. I think that&#8217;s a very hidden form a¡of racism as well. I am equally, if not more appalled when I see the blatant and most of all very ognorant racism we have in Spain and a lot of Europe. The other day I was in the subway, and there were these two guys riding down the stairs. One of them decided to sit down on the step, half jokingly, and out of nowhere bolted two cops who demanded ina very very rude way, to see their documentation. Yes, they looked South American. And I was enraged to think that if the two young guys had been white, that would not have happened. Ever. For sitiing on a tep?? PLEASE! And many many otherthings I see everyday.</p>
<p>I believe Europe, and especially Spain is ignorant. A past of many wars, poverty and nationalism has left many countries on this side of the Atlantic feeling insecure and untrusty of foreigners, or &#8220;different&#8221; people. A shame, I believe. The more, and the bigger the differences amongst us, the better: the more I learn from you and the more we get to share. Racism comes from insecurity and this whole economic crisis will only exarcebate those nationalistic movements and xenophobic attitiudes.</p>
<p>When I lived in India, I realizd that whites are the weak race, destines to dissappear in a fewhundred years, Mulatos, mixed, half halves&#8230; that&#8217;s the future of humanity. And to those that don&#8217;t believe it, I say&#8230; well, maybe you need to travel more!</p>
<p>great post!</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Tracy</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/calling-the-kettle-racist/comment-page-1#comment-45636</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=2369#comment-45636</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget the largest group of immigrants in Spain: the &quot;Latinos&quot;. The Spanish are all too happy to benefit from the (really) cheap labour but are not so keen on acknowledging their existence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t forget the largest group of immigrants in Spain: the &#8220;Latinos&#8221;. The Spanish are all too happy to benefit from the (really) cheap labour but are not so keen on acknowledging their existence.</p>
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		<title>By: jacki</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/calling-the-kettle-racist/comment-page-1#comment-45538</link>
		<dc:creator>jacki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=2369#comment-45538</guid>
		<description>thanks for the comments everybody, especially from my friends in spain. it is clearly an issue we all struggle with, whether while getting to know our chosen country of residence or looking back at the one we&#039;ve left.

what i&#039;m hearing from you all is that it&#039;s the finger pointing that really bothers you; perhaps hypocrisy is a greater offense than ignorance. and maybe that is just what obama&#039;s presidency highlights.

joie -- great point about european&#039;s attitude toward israel&#039;s vs. their treatment of arabs in their own country. 

thank you all for your thoughtful comments and opinions!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for the comments everybody, especially from my friends in spain. it is clearly an issue we all struggle with, whether while getting to know our chosen country of residence or looking back at the one we&#8217;ve left.</p>
<p>what i&#8217;m hearing from you all is that it&#8217;s the finger pointing that really bothers you; perhaps hypocrisy is a greater offense than ignorance. and maybe that is just what obama&#8217;s presidency highlights.</p>
<p>joie &#8212; great point about european&#8217;s attitude toward israel&#8217;s vs. their treatment of arabs in their own country. </p>
<p>thank you all for your thoughtful comments and opinions!</p>
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		<title>By: Schuyler</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/calling-the-kettle-racist/comment-page-1#comment-45534</link>
		<dc:creator>Schuyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 22:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=2369#comment-45534</guid>
		<description>I believe that the only real change that can come about will need to start with the marginalized groups themselves within Spain.  They need to demand equal rights, better jobs, etc.  Without these groups vocalizing the inequality, the prejudice can continue to be easily dismissed as harmless or not real racism.  We, as Americans, are highly sensitive to racism, but your typical Spaniard hasn&#039;t experienced any large scale protests or riots provoked by racial issues.  Until something happens to shine a brighter light on Spain&#039;s racism and/or incite the marginalized groups to action, I don&#039;t see any change occurring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that the only real change that can come about will need to start with the marginalized groups themselves within Spain.  They need to demand equal rights, better jobs, etc.  Without these groups vocalizing the inequality, the prejudice can continue to be easily dismissed as harmless or not real racism.  We, as Americans, are highly sensitive to racism, but your typical Spaniard hasn&#8217;t experienced any large scale protests or riots provoked by racial issues.  Until something happens to shine a brighter light on Spain&#8217;s racism and/or incite the marginalized groups to action, I don&#8217;t see any change occurring.</p>
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		<title>By: krystal</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/calling-the-kettle-racist/comment-page-1#comment-45523</link>
		<dc:creator>krystal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 20:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=2369#comment-45523</guid>
		<description>Amazing post... because it&#039;s something that had to be said, and said well. Sometimes I think the world looks at America through a magnifying glass, analyising and judging every little thing, but rarely do they take the time to inspect what&#039;s happenig right under their noses. I&#039;m not defending racism on any continent but I&#039;m far more worried about the constant critism and finger-point that&#039;s going on instead of construcively making things better. Isn&#039;t that how all wars get started, somebody sticking their nose in somebody else&#039;s business?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing post&#8230; because it&#8217;s something that had to be said, and said well. Sometimes I think the world looks at America through a magnifying glass, analyising and judging every little thing, but rarely do they take the time to inspect what&#8217;s happenig right under their noses. I&#8217;m not defending racism on any continent but I&#8217;m far more worried about the constant critism and finger-point that&#8217;s going on instead of construcively making things better. Isn&#8217;t that how all wars get started, somebody sticking their nose in somebody else&#8217;s business?</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/calling-the-kettle-racist/comment-page-1#comment-45509</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=2369#comment-45509</guid>
		<description>Really interesting. I fear that things might have to get worse before they start to get better. If the economic downturn leads to greater sectarian tension, as some are predicting, perhaps we&#039;ll start to see the kind of political mobilisation you talk about. Sad to think it might have to be this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really interesting. I fear that things might have to get worse before they start to get better. If the economic downturn leads to greater sectarian tension, as some are predicting, perhaps we&#8217;ll start to see the kind of political mobilisation you talk about. Sad to think it might have to be this way.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/calling-the-kettle-racist/comment-page-1#comment-45506</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=2369#comment-45506</guid>
		<description>Somewhat fortelling of your post,  I just recently had an argument with a Spanish friend of mine on this topic. First, I must put out a disclaimer: in my musings on the subject--including the above article&#039;s link to a blogpost I wrote --I still find that using the label &quot;racist&quot; to generalize the Spanish population is  problematic. In many cases, what is happening is more like a generalized naivete or ignorance when dealing with race due to Spain&#039;s lack of experience with multiculturalism over the past five centuries (and until the recent immigration waves of the past decade). 

But of course if the end product of race ignorance within Spain&#039;s borders means that minorities are denied the same education and professional opportunities than whites, it is obvious that something needs to change. Here the effects clearly indicate that there is a cause, and a troubling one at that.

And while full-blown racial prejudice in Spain is rare, what troubles me is the Spanish population (and media&#039;s) reluctance to condemn seemingly &quot;innocent&quot; racial fouls that do occur.  

Instead of self-examining, Spaniards still seek to deny their own &quot;racist&quot; attitudes and acts by justifying how much less racist they are then the British, or the Italians, or any other European country who they think have reacted worse to their foreign guests. 

The collective Spanish consciousness does not include, at present, acknowledgment of discriminatory behavior. This is partly because when they look at a past of mob lynchings in Alabama, or riots in British suburbs, they are certain that they are not racist.

Whether &quot;harmless&quot; monkey chants (&quot;in the spirit of competition!!&quot;)at black players in soccer games is really less flagrant than British protests against foreign laborers, as my friend argued, is really besides the point when looking at the big picture. This picture should portray a society looking inward not outward, and using non-subjective yard-stick in the race debate.

In 2000, it is not good enough to be &quot;not as racist&quot; anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhat fortelling of your post,  I just recently had an argument with a Spanish friend of mine on this topic. First, I must put out a disclaimer: in my musings on the subject&#8211;including the above article&#8217;s link to a blogpost I wrote &#8211;I still find that using the label &#8220;racist&#8221; to generalize the Spanish population is  problematic. In many cases, what is happening is more like a generalized naivete or ignorance when dealing with race due to Spain&#8217;s lack of experience with multiculturalism over the past five centuries (and until the recent immigration waves of the past decade). </p>
<p>But of course if the end product of race ignorance within Spain&#8217;s borders means that minorities are denied the same education and professional opportunities than whites, it is obvious that something needs to change. Here the effects clearly indicate that there is a cause, and a troubling one at that.</p>
<p>And while full-blown racial prejudice in Spain is rare, what troubles me is the Spanish population (and media&#8217;s) reluctance to condemn seemingly &#8220;innocent&#8221; racial fouls that do occur.  </p>
<p>Instead of self-examining, Spaniards still seek to deny their own &#8220;racist&#8221; attitudes and acts by justifying how much less racist they are then the British, or the Italians, or any other European country who they think have reacted worse to their foreign guests. </p>
<p>The collective Spanish consciousness does not include, at present, acknowledgment of discriminatory behavior. This is partly because when they look at a past of mob lynchings in Alabama, or riots in British suburbs, they are certain that they are not racist.</p>
<p>Whether &#8220;harmless&#8221; monkey chants (&#8220;in the spirit of competition!!&#8221;)at black players in soccer games is really less flagrant than British protests against foreign laborers, as my friend argued, is really besides the point when looking at the big picture. This picture should portray a society looking inward not outward, and using non-subjective yard-stick in the race debate.</p>
<p>In 2000, it is not good enough to be &#8220;not as racist&#8221; anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Joie Jager-Hyman</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/calling-the-kettle-racist/comment-page-1#comment-45504</link>
		<dc:creator>Joie Jager-Hyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=2369#comment-45504</guid>
		<description>Jacki,

This is such a terrific post and I have also noticed that &quot;double standard&quot; that you talk about.  As you say, European identity has been carved out of a century&#039;s worth of racial/ethnic/religious conflict--conflict with the &quot;other.&quot;  Whenever I am there, I can&#039;t help but have images of myself walking on bloody soil.  If you add up the World Wars and the Catholic/Protestant, Muslim/Christian, Jewish/Christian, Armenian/Turk, Bosnian/Serb, British/Irish, Basque/Spanish etc. conflicts, you are talking about hundreds of millions of people who died because they belonged to one group  or another.  They died simply because they looked a certain way or believed a certain thing or spoke different languages.

I freely recognize that maybe it is because I am Jewish and my grandparents are Holocaust survivors, but I&#039;ve also found myself really uncomfortable having conversations about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict with some Europeans.  Not because I seek to deny Palestinian suffering.  But I wonder why some Europeans are so quick to label Israelis as racists bigots when I almost never hear them talking about how the Arab people living in their own countries are CLEARLY marginalized and cut off from mainstream opportunity structures.

This is not to excuse inequality or racism around the world--nor do I want to silence those who seek to point it out with the objective of making the world a better place.  It&#039;s best for us all to reflect on our history of inequality and find ways to practice social justice instead of pointing the &quot;you&#039;re more racist&quot; finger.

This is a great topic, Jacki.  Thanks for posting!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacki,</p>
<p>This is such a terrific post and I have also noticed that &#8220;double standard&#8221; that you talk about.  As you say, European identity has been carved out of a century&#8217;s worth of racial/ethnic/religious conflict&#8211;conflict with the &#8220;other.&#8221;  Whenever I am there, I can&#8217;t help but have images of myself walking on bloody soil.  If you add up the World Wars and the Catholic/Protestant, Muslim/Christian, Jewish/Christian, Armenian/Turk, Bosnian/Serb, British/Irish, Basque/Spanish etc. conflicts, you are talking about hundreds of millions of people who died because they belonged to one group  or another.  They died simply because they looked a certain way or believed a certain thing or spoke different languages.</p>
<p>I freely recognize that maybe it is because I am Jewish and my grandparents are Holocaust survivors, but I&#8217;ve also found myself really uncomfortable having conversations about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict with some Europeans.  Not because I seek to deny Palestinian suffering.  But I wonder why some Europeans are so quick to label Israelis as racists bigots when I almost never hear them talking about how the Arab people living in their own countries are CLEARLY marginalized and cut off from mainstream opportunity structures.</p>
<p>This is not to excuse inequality or racism around the world&#8211;nor do I want to silence those who seek to point it out with the objective of making the world a better place.  It&#8217;s best for us all to reflect on our history of inequality and find ways to practice social justice instead of pointing the &#8220;you&#8217;re more racist&#8221; finger.</p>
<p>This is a great topic, Jacki.  Thanks for posting!</p>
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		<title>By: Courtney Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.crucialminutiae.com/calling-the-kettle-racist/comment-page-1#comment-45497</link>
		<dc:creator>Courtney Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crucialminutiae.com/?p=2369#comment-45497</guid>
		<description>Fascinating post, thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating post, thanks!</p>
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